The Nameless Chronicles



The Last Bar Study

The last of this “Bar Bible Study” series was last week.  Mr. Engineer told me that the speaker was going to be a friar, and as such, my entire morning and afternoon was filled with giggles and guffaws resulting from an image of Friar Tuck running around my mind.  Seriously, how could anyone expect me to get much work done with the prospect of seeing a fat man with a rounded baldspot, Beatles bowl haircut, brown habit and wool corded belt.  I felt it only right, with my vow to be upfront and honest with Mr. Engineer, to share with him all the joy I had throughout the day relishing in the thought of the coming evening and he seemed to take it well, enjoying the humor as well, though not as much as me.  Then he completely deflated my balloon by saying that he thought it was just a priest.  I know, bummer.

We got to the bar and were ushered outside this week to the patio.  It was really nice to be outside and not have to worry about being cold all night.  We ordered our supper and gabbed with the others at our table.  We talked about college and majors and jobs/careers.  Everyone assumed that I was Catholic as well and when the discussion came around to me, I was asked what my major was.  I answered, “Christian Ministries.”  Really?  What school did you go to? “Super-tiny Baptist College. [paraphrase]”  The next two questions were priceless.  “So…are…you Baptist?”  um, yes…?  “Are….you comfortable here?”  um, yes…?

Jokes ensued about how the seat I had chosen was perfect for either a quick get-away or to keep an eye on everyone in the room for protection.  The priest then walked up amidst our laughter and I have to say that I was sorely disappointed.  He was a priest, yes, but in plain clothes.  He shared his story and talked about “hearing God in everyday situations.”  His talk was kind of odd, but good for the most part.  I’d say that I agreed with about 70% of what he had to say.

Everything finished, and we took off back to my place.  When we pulled into my drive-way, we stood and chatted by his Jeep for a few minutes.  I asked him what he thought about the meeting.  He said it was good and we talked about times that we had heard God speaking in our lives.  He asked what I thought of it and I thought this was a good opportunity to tell him how dead-set I am on not becoming Catholic.  He didn’t really respond but I figured it’d be food for thought until we saw each other again on Sunday.

I spoke with my pastor’s wife about the religious differences and we agreed that my biggest problem was that I need someone to serve with me in the same church…and that church can’t be a Catholic one.  I think I’d be able to serve with Mr. Engineer in the same church…but that it would probably have to be Catholic. Oh well.  I was still on a bum of not hearing a friar speak…

(as this happened last Thursday, there have been a few events since left out of this blog.  I will work to bring you all up-to-date.  Keep your eyes peeled!)

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  1. * David says:

    It looks as if you’re contemplating breaking up, and sad though it is, you’re doing it for the right reasons. People don’t think religion is important in a relationship, so I’m here to commend you on that. Religion is very important, or should be, in any relationship, because we are all here to put God first, ourselves last. Everyone else comes after God, and before us.

    I’m glad that the Engineer is a strong, faithful Catholic. There aren’t enough of us. I, too, would be disappointed if a priest came to a Bible study not wearing his collar, but given the publicity around priests these days, I don’t blame him. Priests in clerical dress tend to get spit on, or worse. But actually, the venue is very wrong, too-a bar for a bible study?

    You have a lot to learn about the Catholic faith, but I gather you’re not really interested. I wonder why, since we’re the Church Jesus spoke of in the first gospel…

    | Reply Posted 7 years ago
    • Thanks David for stopping by. I appreciate your input and your encouragement. My faith is very important to me…if you can’t tell already…and I wouldn’t want to be with someone who didn’t think it very important for them. As far as the Bible Study goes…it’s supposedly a chain study popular around the nation, called Theology on Tap. From what I’m gathering of it, it’s an attempt to modernize and make the Catholic faith and church study more “cool” for young. I don’t understand it, but I could appreciate what I learned while going.

      As far as my understanding of the Catholic faith goes…I’m sure there are many things that I don’t know about it, and I willingly admit that I would be considered a novice if it came up in discussion. What I DO know about it, goes against what I’ve read in Scripture, which is why I’d never be able to habitually worship in a Catholic setting. The whole praying to Mary instead of God Himself through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and the whole Pope being God’s representative on earth (even so far as to say that he is God in the flesh), the whole going to a priest to confess your sins when you can go to God yourself and receive absolution, oh, and the whole “saints” philosophy. Those things, I don’t find in Scripture, but I am not close-minded enough to believe that there are not “saved” Catholics out there. I know a few of them myself…but it’s like being a Michigan fan in Columbus…hard to do. (ok…not like that at all, but you get my picture).

      Thanks again for stopping by! – Intrepidity

      | Reply Posted 7 years ago
      • * David says:

        Not to argue, but maybe to help you understand, on the points of Catholicism you brought up…

        Regarding praying to Mary and the Saints, do you ever ask someone to pray for you during a time of trial? Your parents, your pastor, or someone? Well, that’s what Catholics do, we ask Mary or a saint to intercede for us, as you ask your pastor. We know that Mary and the Saints are alive, and that’s shown to us in Revelation. Anyone who tells you that Catholics believe the Pope is God in the flesh is totally, absolutely wrong. He is Peter’s successor. Peter was a sinful man, so is the Pope. A man cannot be God. Jesus made Peter his representative, that’s in Matt 16:18, and proven at Pentecost. Peter was the prime apostle. Going to a priest to confess your sins is also biblical. In John 20:21-23, Jesus gives his apostles authority to decide whose sins are forgiven, and how could they know if they weren’t told to them? The apostles were Jesus representatives, they appointed others to take their place when they died (martyred), and the priests are representatives of the apostles.
        So there you have it-intercessory prayer is just what we do on earth when we ask someone to pray that our medical tests come out negative, the Pope as Christ’s representative, confession as a sacrament, and the saints. Saints are just the ‘rock stars’ of our faith.

        Posted 7 years ago
      • Thanks for being open to discuss this. I am aware that I may have some biased information, and I only have time to respond to one of your points.

        Regarding praying to Mary and the Saints, I understand the concept that you are talking about. I do ask others to pray for my concerns and whatnot. However, Mary and the saints are dead. The people I ask are alive. Now, I do believe that people who die as Christians are alive in Christ and well in heaven…but I don’t believe they are concerned at all with what is going on with earth. There is nothing in Scripture that says people will intercede for those on earth. (Or that people on earth need to intercede for those in heaven.) In Hebrews 12, it talks about being “surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses.” That doesn’t mean that we have all these people who have gone before us watching us in anticipation, like a football game. The word “witness” in the Greek refers to “testimony.” Therefore, since we can see the testimonies, the lives (on earth) of these people who lived great and wonderful examples of faith, we can continue on as well and finish the race. But nowhere does it say you pray to anyone other than God, and that through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

        Posted 7 years ago
      • * David says:

        Those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding. Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3-4).

        And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). That’s why we believe that the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

        Posted 7 years ago
  2. * advthirdculture says:

    Nice discussion, girl 🙂

    Yah, I definitely had to do a lot of homework when I dated a Catholic. I read up on Theology and Doctrine differences, and early church history. Also learned a lot that I had some prejudices and bias about the Catholic church. And realized we are closer than we think.
    But at the same time, many of the points that you pointed out earlier, still exists.
    1 thing that caused the split is from Martin Luther, referencing Romans 8, righteousness through faith, and not through actions and confessions. (though there is the verse in James about “faith without actions is dead”…)
    and then later on in the Catholic church, there is the Rose Scriptures, and a slightly different cannonization of the Bible, so the other point, “Bible and Bible only”

    but… this is a really complex discussion.
    And I’ll def be the one to admit that I don’t know everything, and much that I know can only be clips and small snips.

    But at the end of the day, I realized that it is really important for me to share my faith with my spouse, and be able to be on the same page, from the calling of the Holy Spirit, to praying together to directly God, and serving in ministry that God has called us as a couple to do.
    Even though my Catholic ex had his faith, but we didn’t have the same picture of what it meant to “serve in ministry”. And also the conflict of “how do we raise our children”. So eventually… (like after a few months) we decided this was not going to work.
    But it also taught me a lot. It taught me to respect and to love the Catholic church as our own brothers. But is also showed me how important it was for me (personally) to find someone in the protestant faith.
    🙂

    | Reply Posted 7 years ago
    • Hah, I think you may have just found my non-anonymous blog! Haha 🙂 Keep it on the wraps, will ya? But seriously…I’m thinking that we need to be friends. FB?

      | Reply Posted 7 years ago
    • * David says:

      Good that you learned, at least, not to be anti-Catholic, and that you realize we all have truth in Christ. You are, after all, a branch of the same tree. Just a couple of finer points, Catholic canon of scripture came about early on, about 325 or thereabouts. It was formally defined because of Martin Luther wanting to throw out some books that didn’t fit his theology. Like praying to the dead, which appears in Maccabees.

      But I’m all for what you’re saying-many believe that it doesn’t matter what faith their spouse is. But it does matter. Because we’re called to serve God first, our marriage should be second. Anyone should want a spouse that serves God first.
      :thumbsup:

      | Reply Posted 7 years ago


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